From crisis resilience to growth with David Conway

Jacqueline Conway  00:00

The organisational peak is a perilous environment. It’s more complex and challenging than anything that’s gone before, and as a consequence, both executive tenure and corporate longevity are decreasing to survive and thrive at the perilous peak, executive leaders need to balance their functional leadership, a focus on execution with enterprise leadership that is ensuring the organisation adapts in our new world. That’s what we’ll be exploring in the advanced executive leadership podcast. Welcome. I’m your host, Jacqueline Conway. I’m the Founder and Managing Director of Walden Croft, a consulting practice dedicated to helping executives and executive teams anticipate, navigate and lead at the perilous peak. In this episode of the podcast, I’m joined by David Conway, HR, Director at London Gatwick airport for a candid and deeply insightful conversation about what it takes to lead at the executive level during times of profound disruption and beyond. Gatwick is the UK’s second busiest airport and passenger numbers with over 40 million passengers last year and growing. David shares the story of gatwick’s almost complete collapse in passenger numbers when travel was curtailed during and after the pandemic, and the journey to rebuild the airport since then, he talks about the resilience it demanded of the leadership team and how they emerged from it more unified and forward focused, and we explore what collective enterprise leadership looks like in practice. There how strategic priorities became a rallying point and the unique role of HR in shaping executive effectiveness. So whether you’re navigating uncertainty, preparing your team for growth, or stepping into the C suite yourself. David offers real world wisdom that makes this a must listen episode. David Conway, welcome to the podcast. It’s absolutely great to have you here. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. Time always flies when you speak. So looking forward to this very much, but it would be great, David, just to start by introducing yourself, saying a bit about who you are, what your role is, and then we can kind of get into the conversation.

David Conway  02:35

Hi, Jacqueline, great to talk to you again. Probably worth emphasising. We’re not related, as most people kind of see when we both got the same little surname, but we’ve enjoyed working together at London Gatwick, because you’ve kind of helped us with our journey. So I’m David Conway. I’m HR director for London Gatwick. I’ve been here for over four years now. Time’s flown from kind of pandemic through rebuild now kind of on the on the verge of a very exciting kind of growth period. And I’ve been COVID in the field of HR for around 30 years. Before gavid, I was at BP for for around 14 years. Had a wonderful time at BP, working in places like Aberdeen and Alaska and London. And then prior to BP, I spent a decade with British Airways, very much grounded in labour relations, which, which is a subject dear to my heart, and and, yeah, and been very lucky to work for some really great companies and with some great people

Jacqueline Conway  03:38

on the way. You and I worked well together, and I think that there was a natural affinity towards this idea of collective enterprise leadership, the idea that the executive team could be more than the sum of its parts, and but that was a journey that needed some effort, that didn’t just happened by magic. And I mean, tell me a bit about what your perspective on that is, both in Gatwick. But you know, your observations of other executive teams, perhaps that you have observed,

David Conway  04:16

I think, kind of localising a Gatwick. First of all, I think when, when I joined, when I joined the company during the middle of the pandemic, it’s fair to say that the business was really focusing on survival at that point in time, and I think a lot and and at that time, I think when you’re in crisis, I think your role is very easy. It’s very straightforward. I mean, you know, the priorities for the organisation are really already in front of you to manage as you emerge from crisis, you’ve got to really switch gears and really think about how you want to lead the organisation into the future whilst whilst recognising that you’ve been through quite a difficult experience, not only for the organisation, for the shareholders, for stakeholders, and obviously, if you’re on. Staff. And I think when, when we, when we started to talk about enterprise leadership, I think we’re for ourselves. You work with a very talented group of executives, you know, high IQ around the table. They’ve got there because they’re good at what they do. And they’re really, really good individuals. I think throughout my career, one of the things about good individuals, it doesn’t necessarily mean great. Necessarily mean great team. And I think as we, as we knitted together at Gatwick to really focus ourselves on moving into, I guess, normal business and beyond. I think the first thing was that actually, some of the team had been incredibly busy during the pandemic. Some had not. I mean, we had switched off a lot of kind of caps and investment. We had a south the south terminal was closed, so half of our business was out of action. And so, you know, getting the team match fit and really started to think about how we wanted to lead into the future was key. And we centred that around what we’re going to be our strategic priorities. That was the first piece of work that we did as we moved out of crisis, was as an organisation, what are the kind of the strategic priorities that bond us together, that when we stand in front of our organisation and talk about our optimism for the future, it doesn’t matter which job you do around this this table, and we will always talk about These priorities and that kind of really helped us engender positivity about the build back, because that wasn’t always easy. It made it very clear where we were going, and we’ll talk about that more in due course. But I think it really also helps us with how we wanted to lead the organisation through the next stage, and what kind of team we wanted to be viewed as, because I think, you know, one of the things about the pandemic again, is we hadn’t seen our people physically for months, in some cases, and so as we came back out in front of them together, as we started to reopen the organisation, as we started to get busy really quickly, you know, actually, some of the team didn’t know the Exec. Some we onboarded 600 people really quickly in the first few months to be ready. And we had to introduce ourselves to that team so they knew who we were and and I think that was a great piece of work. You know, strategic priorities really helped us with how we wanted to lead, how do we want it to navigate the kind of the period together as well? Because building back or running a business is not a linear experience, you know. How do you deal with the the great days are easy to deal with, but how do you deal with the challenging days that you had? And we had some challenging days, particularly as you kind of got the got the airport running again, and then, I think the the other aspect is that whilst we have a we have our colleagues to look after at the airport, we have our over 40 million passengers a year to service. We’ve also got a group of shareholders that we’re responsible to as well, and as a team, we wanted to be really kind of responsible for the way we ran the business and and ensure that we kind of met the needs of our shareholders as well. And we’re heavily involved with each other, so it’s unlike other businesses, it’s a group where we very much work day to day with each other, and we want to portray to the shareholders that we want them to see, that we, that we, that we have their best interests at heart and And fundamentally, we’re trying to run the best interest, run, run the airport, in the interest of all stakeholders. But the great thing about that piece of work that we did was it really created momentum for us as a team. You know, we were a relatively new team. It had been refreshed. And sometimes people join the team, and you don’t bring them on the journey. It was excellent for us all, because we actually, we actually did invest the time to take time out, to sit down and kind of get to know each other, you know, draw up the way we wanted to work together, and it really created momentum in our performance as a group of people. I

Jacqueline Conway  08:58

think it would be easy for people to underestimate the impact that COVID and lockdowns and the travel bans had on a company like Gatwick. I mean, some organisations had to navigate work from home and lock down and those sorts of things, but that their business was otherwise relatively unscathed. But the extent of the catastrophe that was COVID for travel. And I saw across, you know, the entire kind of tourism travel, but in airports, I mean, it was almost cataclysmic. And I remember coming to Gatwick at that time, and there was literally no one in the south terminal. I mean, I was just sitting there at one point, and there was no other people. And, I mean, you know, it was, it sort of 99 and a half percent, like passenger loss that you had. Over that period it was, I mean, it was something almost cataclysmic, wasn’t it?

David Conway  10:03

I mean, I mean, I think it’s worth saying for the original exec team here, they saw that devastating fall off from day one. I kind of joined at the beginning of year two, when, I guess, there was optimism that the build back would happen. But it later proved to be a full a false start, but I have to pay credit to all the staff at ladder, Gatwick and the team here. You know, it’s pretty clear, nearly close to 50% of the staff were laid off at the time. I mean, there was no business and and you and an airport is there to service airlines and service passengers, and if they’re not there, you have no business. And that was kind of obviously proven in most airports in the world. And it was, I think, I think the kind of the shock of that people will never, will never forget. And I think it’s not a week goes by the airport, but we don’t talk about the pandemic period, but, you know, walking through the terminal today, you know, having a really, we’re now fully into the Easter period. School, school half terms have started. The airport is busy. It’s a distant memory, and it’s in and it’s in the rear view mirror, but we kind of still bear the scarves, because we had to go through a lot together as a team during that period of time, and we were probably one of the last returning businesses during the pandemic period, travel was the kind of the you know, one of the last issues to be resolved as the country started to return to whatever normality is, and it was set in the pent up demand from people to travel was incredible for for myself, I think one of the one of the key challenges was making sure that, you know, as we rebuilt the organisation, that we weren’t gonna have a false dawn, that it wasn’t gonna come back and then we’d have to lay people off again or do something else. So I think it’s been great that we’ve been quite cautious in in our build back, in making sure that the organisation is really fit for purpose in terms of size and scope, and that we keep confidence in the organisation about our journey back. We know we’re back to 44 million passengers this year, this year, which is great. We’ve seen our short haul business fully recovered, but long haul still lags behind, and that’s for many reasons, but I think fundamentally nothing, nothing probably could ever have prepared the airport for a complete shutdown and the implications that would have for for months and months.

Jacqueline Conway  12:40

Yeah, yeah. And I remember the switch back on. It reminded me so that was March, if I’m correct me, if I’m wrong, March 2021 it was like, Okay, we’re all systems go. And for me, it felt March 2022 2022 Yes, of course, yes. It reminded me a little bit of, you know that that idea of, like, you switch on, you’ve had, like, I mean, major bits of infrastructure off for a significant period of time, and the switch on, for me, felt a little bit like, Why 2k there was this collective holding of bread, like, is stuff gonna work? And then, I mean, it was, it was a it was a huge success. And you you know, you got up and running really well. I guess one of the things I would also reflect on was the personal impact on leaders. I mean, of course, there’s personal impact on everyone at Gatwick, so I’m not diminishing that at all, but I was closer to, you know, the senior leadership team post that time. And I mean, that was like a deeply traumatic time to be, you know, an Executive leader in a business that is almost the rug is pulled from under you. And I wonder what you reflect on in terms of resilience and and the importance of resilience for executive leaders, particularly, you know you’re alluding to this last week. So we’re recording this. The Asian markets crashed yesterday when they opened a 10 year low. Donald Trump’s tariffs, he’s he’s in full rhetoric mode around that. And the world is sort of scrambling. So we are in the age of disruption. We are in this kind of Bucha world where we’re not going back to normal as it were, you know, we this? Is this the environment that we’re in now for a very long time, and therefore being able to pull on individual and collective resources within the team, and the resilience within the team, I think is important now and will continue to be important. And I wonder what you make of that.

David Conway  14:49

I mean, I think when we when we established our values, or re established our values during the pandemic, I think if you scrape the service surface and. Out with resilience is, you know, just pops up as a key word in everything that we do. We’ve obviously got the most efficient single runway in the world. And, you know, and resilience is vitally important to make sure that kind of every minute of the operation is optimised here at the airport. But I think, I think if you kind of go into the more personal moments with the leadership team. I think I kind of heart back to the point about not everybody was in the same boat during the pandemic. I mean, I think if I talk on behalf of every HR director in the UK, I think we kind of live through quite a hellish time, you know, whether that was layoffs, or whether that was, you know, administering a furlough scheme or etc, dealing with kind of employee, cultural engagement during that time were huge challenges. But if you were kind of, you know, if you were in our construction team, or if you were in our development team here at Gatwick, where, you know, essentially, think, you know, projects you’ve been working on for years, for the future of the airport, were paused. It’s quite devastating. You know, you work with very professional, highly intelligent individuals, some of the team, our engineer, our engineers, etc, and and I think for many people, stepping back from their day to day role, because was absolutely kind of impacted their their kind of well being, and the way and the way they were, particularly when it came to, unfortunately, kind of laying off their teams. So I think, I think that was, that was something we absolutely worked on as a group of people, when we, when we came together, was you had to do a bit of a kind of a clear the air of the impact of the of the of by that stage have been kind of 15 months of the pandemic, and we didn’t actually meet physically until May 2021, I joined in the January and coming together and kind of getting to meet people physically versus remotely is a very different concept. Have you know there were better quality conversations creating that kind of safe space for kind of for seeing how that impacted people was, was was particularly important. And of course, there were vulnerabilities in the system. And I think it, you know, building trust and team building amongst that group of people was really important. In that first year I arrived in the company, we often joke together about we didn’t really get to know each other until we were able to finally meet and break bread with each other, have a bite to eat, and and kind of and really talk about the challenges that we’d all been through. You know, I mean, some of us had left companies during the pandemic to join Gatwick. Others have been through Gatwick throughout the whole period, and others were still to join. We had some new joiners who joined us later in the year. So everybody had very, very different experiences. Everybody had their own reason for joining Gatwick or staying with Gatwick. And I think the thing that united us all was, was the fact that the ex there’s a constant excitement at the airport about people going on a journey and and once I remember distinctly the day we opened the south terminal, it was like everything had been forgotten. We were back, you know, passengers in the terminal, the teams were kind of excited. We, you know, we, we’ve been scrambling to hire as many people as quickly as possible for our terminal operations, but there was just this feel good environment in our workforce and amongst our leaders around we’re going to really do everything we can to make sure that we have a kind of a really great restart of the business. But you know, when we get together as leaders, we talk about it frequently. We’re in a different era now, because we’re actually preparing for growth, and that puts a different spin on resilience. So I think we, we, we started off with one of our kind of real strategic values, really as an organisation, was to rebuild the business. We’ve now done that we’re now on to, how do we grow the business? And that takes a different resilience, because now what we’ve got in front of us is a 10 year a decade long plan to increase our increase our passenger numbers, from 50 million to 75 million passengers, and and and use two runways instead of the instead of one and and that is a fantastic challenge to have, but in terms of resilience, that’s a lot of energy that you’ve got to make sure you use wisely over a decade long period, and making sure that as a team, quite rightly. Right now, if you look at your priorities, we’re very much focusing on construction and development and and helping those teams come up to speed is is a key priority for us all. So resilience of rebuild is what is one? Energy bank, resilience for growth is another.

Jacqueline Conway  19:55

Yeah, and what about the other? I. Some things that you think are necessary in an executive team. You know, what capacities do you think are absolutely essential for teams? I mean, okay, we’ve talked about COVID, but thinking more about now and growth,

20:16

what’s essential?

David Conway  20:18

We have to have some cool heads right now, and we have got to have long term thinking about the impact of what is happening to the global economy. I’m no doubt about it. We’ll all feel it and and and it will. It’s preoccupying a lot of our thoughts, both internally and kind of with our shareholders. So I think we’ve got to understand with ourselves right now that, you know, instant reactions for us here is probably not the right thing. We need to kind of see how this is going to play out, probably for a bit longer. But it does create anxiety. It creates anxiety for for all your stakeholders, for your staff, and I’m sure there are passengers, our future passengers, are sitting at home right now, thinking, Shall I book that kind of trip later in the year with what’s going on? So that’s kind of important. But throughout this what we want to make sure we do is that we keep we don’t allow this kind of pervading external culture that’s going on to kind of pervade our work environment. I think, I think free speech absolutely important, kind of saying what’s on your mind, but I think you know, whatever your view is of what’s going on across in America or what’s happening in Ukraine, etc, you know, we’ve got to make sure that the culture of the organisation stays very clear as what it stands for. And that’s a really important part for the C suite right now is to make sure that we are communicating that our culture remains unchanged and our priorities kind of remain unchanged in the organisation as well. And at the same time, we’ve got these kind of other challenges going on. And I think particularly in the key conversations we’re having right now are are around digital and technology transformers. I think it’s fundamental for our business right now, as we with our growth plans and and and our ambitions for the future, we’re not going to try and replicate our current business model to get there. We’ve got to do something different. And so across the, you know, right now, we’re spending, you know, good R and D money on, on, what does the, for example, the smart stand of the future look like for, for an aircraft, what does check in look like for, for passengers in, in, in the terminals in 10 years from now? Because the the operating model has been largely unchanged over the years, bar, electronic check in and kind of other services. We’re going to have to make a distinct change here at Gatwick to kind of meet our ambitions. And so I think with all this kind of external kind of noise in the system, what we really do want is we want our C Suites have the courage to lead our business and lead our employees through these through this period of change, because it’s you, you, you’ve got to be careful not to become doom and gloom. You’ve absolutely got to kind of make sure that you believe kind of where you’re going with the business. We’ve got a really exciting growth journey. It’s very hard for us not to be excited about it. I think with a with everything going on in the world, it’s just really important for the C suite now to make sure that they’re talking to their workforces, that they’re talking to their leaders in the business, and they’re being really clear about what their business plan is. I mean, I feel very confident that people here within our business absolutely know that. I’m not sure that’s always been the case at every time in my career, with everybody’s business I’ve worked for that that we that we’re clear about where we’re going. Yeah,

Jacqueline Conway  23:52

I want to ask now a bit about how to prepare leaders as they move into the C suite, and what I’ve heard you see there is leaders needing to have cool heads, to manage their own anxiety, to be able to do really long term thinking, to be able to be good at dialogue with each other, to have courage. So what I’m hearing are all the capacities around a person’s these are individual capacities, if you like, rather than anything about their sort of functional leadership, about their technical expertise. So I’m curious about that, like, what do you make of what’s really required, and where’s the role for that, the kind of the specialism, and is that overrated by the time you get to the C suite, or to what extent is it still vitally important?

David Conway  24:53

This is a recurring conversation, kind of from the last 20 years of my life. I think about coaching very talented. People in companies to reach their career ambitions. And I think having worked with a lot, a lot of engineers in particular, I think the first thing you do is that most people, well, it’s a huge generalisation, but certainly in technical functions, get to where they got to because they’re bright. They’ve got a great IQ, they know what they’re talking about, and they’re great in the technical space. Unfortunately, when you move into leadership, you’ve got to have the right balance of IQ and EQ. You’ve got to be able to make sure that you can lead your teams, that you can, you can, you can absolutely take responsibility for culture within your organisation and that you and that you can make sure that you get your organisation to perform that balance between leadership coaching and if you like, the performance manager of the of of the company is quite critical. And I think the that’s where I’ve seen some leaders struggle in the past that they they absolutely can stand up in front of a room and talk about their area of technical expertise all day, but when you kind of ask them about how will they take their teams with them. They kind of struggle with that. So I think a lot of this is around, you know, at some stage during your career, as you’re kind of, as you’re coming up through your leadership journey, that lot arrange a range of things, you know, making sure that you you are humble enough to make sure you go and attach yourself to some good leaders that you see in organisations and learn from them. I’ve been very lucky. I probably had two standout managers in my career who would absolutely say I just took what they did and kind of replicated it. You know it absolutely you know that it’s a winning formula that they had and and would continue to do that to this day, but, but make sure you discount the things that you, that you, that you see, that you wouldn’t want to replicate, because, you know, you have got to be your own person. You’ve got to be authentic. It’s got to be something that you wake up in the morning and walk into work and you will do naturally. It can’t be forced. So I think this kind of managing, this IQ EQ journey, is very important when you start to move into the kind of from the manager to leadership field. And I think the the other thing, I think companies as well have to be absolutely realistic with people. I think we have a lot of very if I think about the way we have refreshed the executive team here at London Gatwick, we’ve got some really talented people coming through the pipeline, but we need them to go and work in other parts of our shareholder portfolio and pick up different skill sets or different experiences, and then come back and be C suite here at Gatwick. You know, I don’t think we’re a business where necessarily, people will get that kind of linear journey from the floor to the C suite. If I look at our own CEO, Stuart, you know, who you know really well, he’s gone from being an apprentice to being CEO at Gatwick, but, but he has, he has done a lot, done a lot of different jobs, and undertaken a very, you know, a career path that’s enriched him, as well as kind of picking up educational, kind of sponsorship along the way, and to get into where he is today. So it’s, it’s absolutely a journey where you’ve got to become uncomfortable. You have to think about yourself and the things that you’re great, you’ve got to hold on to the things that you need to develop. You need to go and learn from other people and and I say to a lot of developing leaders, sometimes the hardest questions are to answer is, you know, what? What could you do better? You know? What are you not so good at and then, and then and then. How will you address that? How will you deal with that? And I think very often people are promoted to come into interviews or that where they or they radiate this confidence about the things that they do at work really well. But how often do we really talk about the things that they will absolutely have to address to sit around an executive table and be successful, because there’s no hiding place around the C suite table. It’s a as a recurring theme for people is it’s quite lonely. You know, you know, showing weakness can be a vulnerability for some people, and you have got to make sure that you have a range of experiences under your belt and and and a group of people in your network that you can talk to. I mean, I’m very lucky. I’ve got some great ex colleagues, people like you, Jacqueline, kind of others that I can pick up the phone to when I’ve got a when I’ve got a conundrum that I want to work through. So you know, you can’t, you can’t isolate yourself. So there’s, there’s that issue around, can I get what I want from within the company, and what do I what do I need to have available to me externally to be able to help me with my career journey?

Speaker 1  30:15

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I’m keen to ask about the role of

Jacqueline Conway  30:22

HR, I mean, and I’m, you know, I’m sort of never tired of saying, I think it’s, I think it’s a really interesting dynamic for the HR director, CPO, whatever the title is, who both has responsibility for developing the C suite and ensuring that the C suite, that the capacities are there in the C suite to to be able to perform well in the environment that they find themselves. And that’s, you know, that’s a deeply disruptive environment right now. And you also sit in that so, you know, you’ve, you’ve got skin in the game because you’re in that team, but you also have the responsibility for developing the team. And I wonder if you could say a bit about what you think the sort of strategic role

Speaker 1  31:09

of HR is, because, in some way that you are able, you have

Jacqueline Conway  31:18

always been able to think about that you have had a natural affiliation to understanding this, the pivot that’s required for a leader as they move into the C suite, individually, but also, crucially, this piece around the kind of collective enterprise leadership, the ability for the team to be able To do things well together. And I don’t know that that that is universally acknowledged or accepted, or even if it is acknowledged and accepted by other senior HR people, it’s not always then followed through in with the kind of thoroughness that you have followed it through. So what would you say to other HR, senior HR leaders who are perhaps grappling with the need to do something with the senior team, but not knowing what it is?

David Conway  32:13

Quite a long discussion point that one I think that, I think the first thing, and I’ll say this, is someone who’s made this mistake before. I think there is something, and this sounds like absolute common sense, but I think the first thing for any any number one HR director or CPO is do make sure that you’ve done your investigation and research on the HR plan that you bring to the business in that it does align with the business goals. It does align with whether with what the business and the shareholders want for the organisation. I I’ve sometimes hate in within HR, sometimes we as a function, can forget that we’re there to service the goals of the business and to help the business be successful. We’re not there as an island to create an agenda for HR where you know there has got to be a return on the investment that that you have for for running this function within a company or an or a business, absolute common sense. Amazing how you can lose your way, when, when, when, when that isn’t held to account, I think, and I think the, I think, certainly working with our shareholders very closely here, I think it’s been really useful. We have a private equity shareholder, and we have a PLC shareholder, and and, and, and and, I think one of the key things I’ve really found through through great relationships with both of them, is that they the navigation with them is different, but the end goal is often the same. So within HR, I think, I think it really is incumbent on, on, on you when you are formulating your plans when you’re discussing how you’re going to support the business that you then create that kind of coalition amongst the team that they support your plan. And I think in this job, more than in the other job, I spent, I spent an inordinate amount of time at the table making sure the team know the plan, support the plan, and are involved in its formation, and some of the kind of pivotal decisions that we make as well. So we have a very, probably the strongest governance process, I think I’ve had in the company around HR is here, and it’s and it’s formed by the team that they want to be involved, because what you don’t want is a dissenting voice outside the room saying, I don’t agree with that decision. It’s just fundamentally important. So I think the other thing with the HR plan is making sure that you absolutely take it to the C suite table, that they buy into what you’re trying to do. You got to create this coalition of people who will absolutely go out of the room and and talk positive. Sibly about what HR going to do in the company and, and if you have them involved in that process, you know, for me, it’s an absolute win win. I think that I felt it more in this job, because we have a really excellent kind of governance process of sitting around the table together as a team, dedicated time every single month on the people agenda, and and the team often comment it’s one of the best meetings of the month, because we really get to dissect the issues, use the research that we found, and really make the really make the right decision for every function in the company, because we’re a mix of industrial and corporate functions and and we’ve got to make sure that the decisions are right. The other thing I’d say about why, why does HR need to play that kind of role at the at the C suite table? I think I’m being very honest. If HR doesn’t do it, who will? There’s somebody has to be responsible for the health of the C suite. And I mean, when I say the health, I mean their their their engagement, their teamwork, their collaboration. Appreciate. You can say it’s a CEO’s job or the shareholders job, but fundamentally, you have the I think I occupy one of these really special roles where I can sit there and observe what’s going on around the table and and remain objective and work with the CEO and his team, and obviously I’m part of his team, so make sure that we are we are effective. They’ll come and it’s important to avoid those blind spots. That’s why, you know, I’ve worked with you in the past, Jacqueline, because I think at times, as well, you do go back to what I said earlier, you have to reach outside the company sometimes and create a momentum for that team, particularly when you have new members joining, or when you have a refresh, or when you have a disruption. So we do believe in in in the work that we do together, and to make sure that we kind of have a very strong identity.

Jacqueline Conway  36:55

Great stuff. David, thank you very much. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. We could go on and on, couldn’t we? And maybe we’ll do that over a cuppa, right? Too long. But thank you so very much for coming onto the podcast. Thanks, Jacqueline. If you found this podcast useful, then I think you’ll find value in my newsletter, the perilous peak. It’s a digest for executives leading in a disrupted world. When you subscribe, you’ll discover why it’s a must read for so many leaders who already receive it, and it’s there that you’ll gain access to some of our latest thinking resources and tools that we are continually creating for you. Head over to Walden croft.com/newsletter to sign up. When you do, you’ll receive a complimentary copy of my CEO research report and how to respond to the challenges that executives are now facing you.